Griffin - I got your point but did you get my point? Your companies are obviously still in business - my company is obviiusly NOT doing business at the moment. And I'm upset but not so upset that I can't debate the ways and means to solve the problem.

Ok

Also a quick google maps view of their address indicates it's in a large office park so your hope that they own their building is miniscule, and if they did it would very likely be under a different corporate umbrella.

I said it before and it still stands true. My heart goes out to everyone that is waiting on or depending on payments from this MSC. Unfortunately, everyone should realize that this situation is a part of doing business as independent contractors, and we each signed up knowing the risk. This may play out and be resolved in time, but realize that that time will likely not be coming quickly.

I make my primary living as a 3d animator. While currently employed, I have spent about half of the last twenty years working as a freelancer. It has happened to me in the past where I have delivered work expecting to be paid within 30 days. One time that deadline went to 60, then 90 days. Afraid to raise a stink and maybe loose a good client, I said nothing and they continued to give me little jobs here and there. When I finally spoke up, they announced their bankruptcy and went out of business. I was owed over 15 thousand dollars. I filed my claim, but I was a little fish in the lake. Equipment suppliers that leased to this production company, other vendors, creditors, and the lease holder on the office all had bigger claims than mine and after all recoverable assets were sold, there was nothing left for me. It was a write off. That recovery process took over 6 months and I got nothing. After that experience, I always delivered my work with a huge watermark over the project and would not remove it until I was paid. Clients complained, but they eventually came around and continued to give me work.

So to new shoppers, realize what you are getting yourself into. Try to avoid getting too invested with a single company. Don't put "all your eggs in one basket". Believe me, we will be the last to know when a company is getting into trouble. Look for and take heed of the warning signs. Try to build real relationships with people you're doing business with. Maybe they will give you a heads up if they see things going south. Send them a note from time to time. Learn the names of their significant others. Send them a holiday card. I admit, I don't do that much with MSing, but I do keep and nurture relationships with every client from my freelance days, 'cause I know I might just be back in the freelance game again at any time. In my business, the longest I've ever held any FTJ was 5 years, and I'm coming up on 4 at my current gig. Not that I did anything wrong, people just get tired of your "look" as an artist over time and want something different.

So peeps, again, my sympathies to everyone that had a lot invested with NSS. I hope you all (and me) get paid what we are owed. Too bad this may just be a very harsh lesson to some about being a "independent contractor". Trust me, I feel your pain. I've been there.

I guess I just really want to know what happened to a company that's been doing business for 40 years - one that I had a good relationship with and enjoyed doing their projects. It's sad, you know! I once worked for a law firm that ended up in bankruptcy - fortunately I saw the signs early on and got out a year before they did. It was a fine firm and the lawyer who ran the firm with a steady hand was diagnosed with cancer. The folks who picked up the reins to run the firm, were fond of spending money on fancy office renovations and furniture - and the firm just "died" along with the original owner.

You are absolutely right and I thought I had a good relationship with my scheduler but often the employees themselves don't realize what is coming down. I feel sorry for them because they will likely be out of a job as well as probably not being paid for the last few weeks they worked.

We know the owner is gone. We don't know if he is deceased, but we know he's gone. At this point it's moot. I spoke with one of Sips' suppliers, and they confirmed that Sips is closed and has been for a couple of months. Two NSS employees, according to their linkedin pages, left the company in Feb and April and have new jobs. NSS was a small company, so if things were turning south, everyone probably was aware. I'm guessing they continued scheduling because they were hoping for the best.

@plmccut wrote:

And creditors have to be paid if the assets go into probate. That's why it would be really, really good if we could figure out just what the Heck is going on. Personally, in my heart, I know my $700 is gone but I would still like to know who, what, where, why . . ..

In CA, if an estate goes into probate intestate (w/o a will), all KNOWN creditors (in this case it would be shoppers or anyone else that is owed money) must be duly notified.

It's doubtful that a longtime business person with multiple sources of income would not have a Trust set up and my guess is that the notification rules are the same.

In either case, all creditors (shoppers included) should be notified.

Whether a Trust, will, or an intestate estate is involved, it's an extremely lengthy, drawn out process and the first order of business would be to find out if a death actually occurred.

CA state death records would be the source of that information. Or you can call the probate court in the county he lived in to find out if the estate is in probate. If he lived in Auburn, the probate court would be for Placer County.

The problem with that line of thought though, is that none of the companies assets or debts were held by him personally. NSS was surely incorporated. If he indeed passed away, HIS assets would be in probate, and that might include his stock in NSS, but NSS itself would be unaffected as they are a separate legal and financial entity.

Good point.
If anyone is owed enough money to make it worth their while, hiring a good estate attorney to do some digging would be a good idea.

I will help contribute for someone to send an investigation team into figuring out what happened. Why don't we start by contacting those employees who took new jobs?

The company name was Business Index Group, Inc. /dba/ National Shopping Service. They are incorporated in California (C1460563) and according to CA Secretary of State website the company is still listed as active, though who knows when, or if, anyone has filed paperwork with the state.

At this point it's safe to say they're gone
No company would do this unless they had the intention to vanish.

Maybe. Here is my guess. Once the owner passed away, the heirs (his widow I assume), did not know enough about the business to keep it running. They probably attempted to find a buyer for the company but by the time that happened, if it indeed did, employees had left (who works for a company that nobody is running?), shops probably didn't get completed (invalidating contracts), and basically nothing is happening. I would not be surprised if there is not a checking account somewhere with money in it, there's just nobody left that knows what to do with it, or if it even exists.

Still you would think there would be an obit somewhere or a news article. Curious.

Auburn, CA is a pretty small town, and he owned 3 distinct businesses in town, belonged to the Auburn Aviation Assn, and there wasn't a word in the Auburn Journal about his passing that I could find.

HA. I just searched there too.

All holdings, partial or otherwise, and accounts associated in any manner with a person that has a Trust or Will in place must be notated in that Trust or Will. To sort all that out will take the expertise of an attorney that knows the ins and outs of CA Trust/Will law AND business law.
Unless nothing was in his name, they'll be able to find the Trustee, Executor, or Administrator that is responsible for the handling of outstanding debts.

We haven't even found Proof of Death yet! With owning the businesses located in Auburn, I would think he would be a fairly well known man. Interesting that no obit showed up in the local newspaper.

Owning 3 businesses in town!

[www.facebook.com]

But 75 posts on the Sip Facebook page about his death. And sometimes people don't want obituaries or funeral services. My Uncle Ray was like that and when he died his wife cremated him and didn't keep his ashes, and it didn't get put in the paper...in accordance with his wishes. A friend of mine from high school also did the same thing, no funeral, no obituary. It's unusual but it does happen.

I was just about to post that.
It would be fraud for a company to publicly post that it's owner had passed away if he had not. I'm going with he has.

He was a member of the Old Town Auburn Bus. Asso. and attended the February meeting. The notes on the March meeting mentioned a "moment of silence" for the passing of Matt. I can't see anyone who says what happened but apparently it was an unexpected death. Or maybe I'm reading more into this.

Well no long illness, as that would have been expected, not homicide and not likely a car wreck, as those would have made the papers.

"unexpected death" usually means the family wants to keep the details private. It could have been a heart attack, car accident, or ... really anything. Everyone certainly respected the family's wishes for privacy. Hope BGriffin is right and there is a checking account somewhere that's flush with cash.

Most of the time car accidents end up in the paper. I too am hoping that there is money.

From the man's picture he looked so vital and in extremely good health. Sometimes folks do not make arrangements for an orderly after death handling of their business affairs. I remember years ago we had a local businessman who (along with his mistress) died from carbon monoxide poisoning. He had a wife and six kids. Took a long time to get the financial stuff sorted out but I don't recall at any time that his business did not keep running. Eventually all the creditors came out of the woodwork, were satisfied and the widow took over the business. IMHO, she has done a fine job and, perhaps, a lot better than he would have.

Thoughts:

1. I hated their pizza. I really did.... but I ordered it. I thought $17.99 was expensive when I could get a Pizza Hut Medium 2 topping online for $6 bucks. I did it for the money, yes!

2. Is there a way that we can become listed as some of the creditors they owe?

3. Someone posted earlier about wanting to find out about the restaurant's employees job status. How about calling the restaurant and see if anyone answers?

4. I always believe in "Do the Right Thing" I hope the family "does the right thing" and pays us.

The Facebook page shows that Sip is temporarily closed.

I have heard from a friend of a friend who is not involved with his business/es. According to my contact, yes he has died. They are still sorting things out. I was the executor of my mom's trust in Calif and it does take some time. And her will being a trust was much simpler to administer than a corporation and all it's creditors, employees etc, etc. My mom had none of those and I did not finish for a year! If they are closing the business I am pretty sure we will all be contacted eventually as laws in California and strong and complete...no vagueness allowed for those who have rights under the law. To be legal there is a lot of work to do and when someone dies it is not a simple matter of just writing out checks. Everything needs to be checked and double checked. I know everyone is anxious to know and even with my contact I do not know where things stand. Hopefully we will hear something more soon from whoever is the spokesperson.

Just got this email for that other pizza account that NSS had and am wondering if anyone knows or has a relationship with Katy and could contact her to try for further info. Based on this, I am even more convinced that NSS is gone, kaput!

katy@superiorcustomersolutions.com
Today at 2:22 PM

Hello Everyone!

Hope you are having a great weekend! I wanted to let you know that we have some new shops in your area for XXXX's! The shops are available to be done any day between 6/12 and 6/25. The reimbursement is up to $10!

If you would like, please login and see what is available. If you would like one of the assignments, please self confirm. Please let me know if you need anything. Thanks!

Shopper Login:

[www.evalhub.com]

Katy Gravatt
Superior Customer Solutions
(888) 928-5068
(888) 899-2509 (fax)
katy@superiorcustomersolutions.com
Today at 2:22 PM